Discussion in 'Political/Religious' started by Kahless, Mar 29, 2012.
Because some people want to be outraged. Some people want to turn everything into a race war.
If that were true, he would have called the cops on the guy who came out of the store right before Trayvon.
I don't know or care if it was racial profiling or not, all I know is we have a wanna be cop walking around with a gun following people around in the neighborhood who are basically minding their own business and now we have a dead kid.
I don't think so. The term "hood rat" is prejudicial anyway; wearing a hoodie does not make one a suspect. Although it probably should. That's why I always call the cops on my dad.
Irrelevant anyway. Wannabe cop shouldn't be chasing kids around the neighborhood with a gun in his pocket.
This. I've done a complete 180 on this, from giving GZ the benefit of the doubt, to stepping back and realizing that TM was killed ultimately for the crime of being a suspect in the eyes of a fake cop.
what? he asid that TM was "wandering and acting odd" within his gated community, TM was there visting someone in his family, ..what store?
If it is irrelevant, why did you persist in talking about it then?
17-year olds aren't kids anymore.
And "chasing kids" is pure spin, as that is not the same thing as following a suspicious-acting young adult in a gated community that had had tons of break-ins prior to that evening.
The store where TM had bought his snacks or whatever. I'm not really clear on the geographic layout of where exactly this shit went down.
Pay attention to the facts, it's not that hard. The kid had just come from buying some skittles. At a store.
Um, no. Chasing kids is a fact. Trayvon Martin = 17 year old. 17 year old = kid. Guy with gun chasing him = guy with gun chasing him.
He got out of his truck to look for TM. He went out of his way to have a confrontation with him. If you see a suspicious person, you call the cops, you don't get a gun and go suspect-hunting. You only do that if you're a cop yourself and you're trained to deal with confrontations with kids.
How quick we forget that IMO , TM made the agressive move and struck GM...period, and had him pinned either way and feared for his life, so lets not get too off the track that TM was "just humming a tune eating skittles and gunned down for being black"..
And none of us are clear on what exactly happened, which is why it is ridiculous for any of us to talk in black and white terms, no pun intended, about what did or did not happened. It is possible we may never know what really happened. It is a tragedy no matter which way we look at it, but how wrong Zimmerman was is still very up in the air (since I think most of us would agree that was definitely in the wrong to some extent).
You gotta be trolling now.. its pretty clear that GZ only got out of his truck because he was going to give the cops the location of TM, and had lost sight of him ( the cones may have blocked the vehicle so he got out) not that he was running after him with a gun drawn like Hutch and was returning to his car when told they were on the way and not to. There are witnesses..
Well both of these are true, but today I am thinking that TM was provoked into being the aggressor when GZ reached in his pocket. TM likely feared for his safety at that point, if not earlier. I'm not so sure the self-defense argument stands in light of the fact that GZ provoked him.
Same here. I actually thought about the case when it first went down and felt supportive of Zimmerman and felt he was getting a bad rap on this because TV was black. But the more I thought about it and the more I've read about it, the less I feel that is true and the more I feel that this Zimmerman guy is a fucking vigilante wannabe cop who fucked up and is now doing what it takes to cover his tracks. I think the cops may be complicit in the coverup as well.
Okay, if we are going that route, then why aren't Trayvon's parents being blamed for letting their kid run around alone a neighborhood that has a lot of crime lately. If he is just a kid, seems pretty irresponsible to me. I know that I wouldn't let my kid run through the streets alone if a lot of crime had happened in the area lately.
So we are not allowed to discuss it and come up with our own theories, opinions and sentiments? I think we should; we ALL are aware of the giant caveat that none of us know exactly what happened, so you don't really have to remind me.
That is fine, and I agree, but I hate when people paint things in simple terms, when this incident and tragedy is anything but simple. It is not as simple as "wannabe cop guns down innocent kid because he was black."
Yep. Agreed on all counts. Especially the last part, coinciding with GZ's dad being an ex-judge. It's just way too fishy.
Now of course I'm not joining the Spike Lee/Al Sharpton rent-a-mob calling for GZ's head, but I do think it needs to be actually investigated and he needs to be charged if it is true Trayvon was not committing a crime at the moment Zimmerman reported him.
Lets also not forget there are reports TM said " tonight you are going to die" so maybe thats why when pinned and being beaten that GZ may have over reacted and shot.. from TMs twitter pages and and words on them he sure did like to 'talk the hostile talk" and "look gangsta with the gold teeth and all" so this is not clear cut...
on another note I feel Eric Holder is behind some of this as far as gun rights and this will be used to take them away.. thats why this story is being moved by the press also
Spike Lee should be in jail.. period. and Rosanne Barr
ALL I am after here is an FBI investigation so that the TRUTH can come out. I am interested in THE TRUTH. Nothing more, nothing less. I've offered my opinion of what might have happened based on my own interpretation of the facts combined with the extenuating circumstances surrounding the case and the people involved. To me, something smells here. The whole story about Zimmerman having his ass beat by this kid reeks. Yeah, he was treated by EMTs at the scene, but head injuries produce a TON of blood and in the video at the police station there is no evidence of blood on that dude at all, nor are there any indications that he's been in a fight for his life. There's just a few too many things that don't add up. If an investigation shows that it was a justifiable shooting then so be it. I'll get on board with it. But right now this whole story stinks.
Well yeah, fuck the people who are saying that (basically the rating-baiting media and the New Black Panthers). That's why I keep wishing the victim was white so nobody would give a shit about this and we'd be talking about how Rick Santorum thinks pink bowling balls are gay.
I don't give three fucks that the kid is black, but don't tell me Zimmerman wasn't saying "coons" on that tape. I know what I heard, and I heard "fucking coons" and I think anyone who is listening with an objective ear is going to have a hard time saying it was anything else with a straight face. And that's just ONE SMALL COMPONENT of the entire set of facts and circumstances surrounding this case that have helped to shape my opinion of what went down.
Thats not what I heard.. and many others.. but I loved how CNN framed it that "we wont tell you what you will hear but will play the whole thing its aweful tho and terrible"... that was priceless stuff.. so transparent. Only a blind person couldnt see they set one up before hearing it to hear "the horrible words"..
Please don't pollute this thread with your idiotic conspiracy theories. kthxbye
This is my view, and while a murder is bad, I think that putting so much attention on this is kind of offensive to all the other murders that go on in this country on a daily basis. Some random dude gets shot a few streets over from me, but because there's no way for the media to turn it into a shitstorm, nobody cares.
Honestly, it's one more dead person out of many. I'm not going to waste all the time people are wasting on this anymore. I have other things to do with my life.
Its a valid angle with the Black Panther angle, Obamas words " he looks like my son if I had one" .. but I agree we can discuss that in another thread. lets get back the your conspiracy that "this is racial profiling by a Spanish fella who helps tutor black children and has black friends and family.".
I think this case is different and deserving of more attention than your typical "kid gets shot for walking through neighborhood" case because of the light it shines on [The NRA] Florida's [/The NRA] "Stand Your Ground" law.
You can have black friends and still racially profile though. Most of us do it. None of us call the cops and follow them down with a loaded weapon and pretend to be cops, however.
Most of us dont take a 14 week course on how to do a neighborhood watch either.. Most of dont live in a gated community with 7 breakins in the last few months and may have people looking at us for assistance and maybe even telling us "you're not doing a good job" most of us are not punched in the face and told "you're going to die tonight" .. maybe TM did the profiling, maybe he would not have attacked GZ if he was a black fella? maybe he thought he was an easy push over softy..
Most of us don't go looking for trouble where there isn't any to begin with. Haven't you ever heard the phrase "Didn't start none, wouldn't be none?" Can you not understand why TM feared for his safety -- especially when he saw that Zimmerman, a non-cop -- when he saw GZ's gun?
and TM started the event that spiraled.. again GZ was doing his job to some regard. He never saw his gun, it was concealed..unless you can show me otherwise. again Im 98% sure the tapes will rpove it ws GZ screaming for his life before having to fire after being told "tonight you are going to die and being punched in the face and pinned " and maybe GZ thought "if I dont do anything and dont call 911 and follow him and he gets away we cant solve these breakin and he hurts someone or commits another break in. who knows..
Dis, so you are saying GZ is running with gun drawn, TM sees the gun, walks up to GZ and hits him in face and pins him, not fearing the gun? say huh?
That all may be true, but it still can't justify what he did. I'm really curious about his actions that he has not been forthcoming about -- namely his attempt to grab his "cell phone" when Trayvon confronted him. The cops shouldn't just take him at his word, especially when the victim cannot speak.
See above. I now believe TM was provoked.
and the witnesses gave there testimonial at the scene.. provoked? still doesnt give one the right to assault another person
and I can no longer follow your opinions , one minute the gun is drawn and shown, the next you admit its not, now its "provoking" by following? but you refuse to see that if you punch a person and say "tonight you die" that that person being attacked and fearing for his life screaming for help may be forced to use fatal force..thats real "provoking" TM did
The investigation should bear those points of contention out, as should a real interrogation of the suspect (I prefer the FBI). I believe GZ told cops he was reaching for his cellphone and that's when TM took the first swing. To me that is possibly what provoked TM into acting in self-defense.
That's all I'm asking for too, an FBI investigation. There are just too many fishy things about this whole situation and I just want the facts from someone other than Zimmerman. I don't really care either way if the facts support my hypothesis of what happened or not. I just think the responsible thing to do now is to let the FBI investigate this matter.
Sup guys, just thought I'd say hi from beyond the grave
As unlikely as it seems, there appears to be a different Trayvon Martin in a different state that looks just like the dead one. I believe that picture is of the undead one.
I think I've finally boiled my opinion down to the simple premise that Trayvon brought a knife to a gunfight. I'm very much of the opinion that Zimmerman bears a great deal of the responsibility here, as he's the asshole that started the whole thing by giving chase. That said, he had every right to do so. Likewise, in my opinion, Trayvon had every right to confront him and quite possibly beat the shit out of him; stand your ground works both ways. I'm a longstanding believer that having the right to do something doesn't mean that you necessarily should, though. That's where judgment kicks in, and both of these guys exercised poor judgment. When push came to shove, Trayvon's judgment got him into a situation, which while legal and understandable, got him killed. Most unfortunate.
Seems to me that the important thing now is to find a reasonable way out of this hyper-intensified situation. I think most of us here can agree that one of the two outcomes will almost certainly lead to rioting, and that's something that I'd just as soon not see. As much as I think that Zimmerman was an idiot acting lawfully, I also think it might be reasonable to make him take one for the team. The black folk will get their pound of flesh, which is really all they want, and us white people will shrug and write it off as a reasonable implementation of pragmatism. Life goes on.
equal or lesser force
not legal nor understandable
Cops -- especially fake wannabe cops -- would never lie.
There are now two audio experts who say it's unlikely that the person heard screaming in the 911 call is Zimmerman.
Story here (you know, from that bastion of hard-liberal media bias, CNN)
The more that comes out about this case and the people involved, the more it's beginning to look like Zimmerman is guilty of manslaughter at least.
if the screams are TM, then thats a game changer in my mind, and I will not support GZ at all and just let the justice system take its course and watch.
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