This thread is for discussing the Trayvon Martin incident. For info, see here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trayvon_Martin This thread will be closely moderated. Please adhere to the higher standards of behavior and decorum that we usually observe in the P/R subforum.
Saw the police surveillance video of Zimmerman. Dude did not look like he had been in a fight for his life. There were some very clear shots of his face and the back of his head. Also, he did not look like he was a fat slob - at all. This video is from the night he killed Trayvon. For someone who had his head slammed into the pavement and had the shit beat out of him he sure recovered quickly. And please don't try and say that you can't see anything well enough in the video - if that video was any more clear it would be HD.
I think that it's ridiculous to think that we can have rational discussion on the subject beyond acknowledging that fact and the reason why, which is that nobody here has any information that would be essential to determining what actually happened. And honestly, there are so many travesties and tragedies that happen on a daily basis, giving this much attention to this one alone is silly. "I'm too busy to worry about genocide in Uganda, because I'm fighting for justice for Trayvon."
I don't, he appears to be a good guy, who wants to help the local community, he obviously was trying to solve why his neighborhood had 7 robberies recently, maybe he was getting heat that he was "not doing his job"..who knows, but from what I can see he is of mixed background and has never shown to be anything but a pretty good guy. I worry that many others will not ever volunteer now to be part of a neigborhood watch group after this, and I read he gave his time to tutor local kids of all backgrounds. I feel he felt he was going to be beaten badlyor maybe killed and I feel bad for him, I believe he didnt want to kill anyone, it just doesn't seem to part of his personality makeup and I don't believe that he has had violence in his background. Plus witnesses say he was getting beaten and screaming for his life for help. I dont feel its "fishy"?
Can you post the pics please? He did get busted for fighting a cop and some domestic abuse stuff years ago.
Stole my post. fighting w/cop: http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2...estic-violence-fighting-with-a-police-officer domestic abuse: http://www.fox43.com/news/nationworld/os-george-zimmerman-domestic-violence-20120321,0,1594755.story Can you post the pics please?
I don't consider the backgrounds of either of them relevant at all, but here's what you asked for. http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/03/29/tagblogsfindlawcom2012-blotter-idUS283684187120120329 Zimmerman was busted for resisting arrest and assaulting a cop. The charges were plead down, and expunged after taking some bullshit alcohol treatment program. He and an ex-fiance both filed restraining orders against each other citing violence. None of the really matters, but it does suggest that he might not be so squeaky clean after all.
nvm found it. http://dailycaller.com/2012/03/29/police-surveillance-video-of-zimmerman-may-show-head-injury/
I saw that pic already...the pic with a ton of enhancement. I'm not saying he did or didn't get in some kind of physical altercation with the kid - but he does not look/walk/appear to be someone who had the shit beat out of him earlier that night- at least in the video. That's all I'm saying.
Put yourself in his shoes though. If someone bashed your head into the concrete and you had a gun, wouldn't you use it anyway? Even if your head wasn't visibly injured?
Well in this case, it did. The media is just trying to create more controversy by clouding the issue with the new video.
Perhaps. But I also go out of my way not to get into any type of situation that would result in physical harm to me or another....if push came to shove, I guess I would. My point is though, it doesn't seem to me that he even had his slammed repeatedly off of pavement...it doesn't seem like Zimmerman really has any serious injury at all. *Seem* being the key word here. I find it hard to believe a guy of his size (who *seems* more muscle than fat) would be held down by a kid that is not near his size/weight.
I have/had been a ton of fights and I can attest that anything can happen, I have taken down bigger guys and have been hit from behind from smaller guys, anything can happen and I have had to do things in the heat of fights to protect myself from more bodily harm. its important to remember we are talking now as "rational" , when in a fight and scared or on the attack that one is almost blind with adreneline and unsure if one will be beaten unconscious and shall we say "lose" and end up maimed or much worse. and from what I can tell they were pretty equal in size and we have audio of Zimmerman screaming for help, whcih tells me he didnt know how to fist fight and was vulnerable, so to me that says he was attacked first with a punch as I sense he didnt know how to fist fight.. just my two cents
I thought it was unclear if it actually was Zimmerman screaming for help... You make very good points. I have never been in a fight myself, so I don't really know what goes through a person's head when the adrenalin kicks in. I have however, witnessed some pretty gruesome fights, and both people never come out looking that good. As far as them being relatively equal in size, Zimmerman is definitely much bigger.
I think a lot of this discussion misses the point. There isn't enough evidence for forum members to speculate on what happened and take opposing viewpoints in support of/against Zimmerman. The key issue is that the police should have treated the incident as a potential homicide and followed the protocol for that. That includes their treatment of Zimmerman, their collection of evidence at the scene, etc.. It seems like they began with that approach and for reasons that have yet to be unveiled, dropped the ball at some point. What someone should have done in Zimmerman's shoes is a subjective issue that isn't really worth discussing because there isn't a clear account of what happened. The key point is that a young human being was killed, and it is law enforcement's job to make a serious and competent effort to be sure that it was absolutely necessary.
I think at the end of the day they are close in size and Trayvon played football recently so Im going to say he was much more physical of a person and knew how to tackle etc, was much more adept at physical confrontation. and I am seeing another side of him from what they ar showing of his Twitter accts and all.. I dont think he was in the church choir
I think everyone here pro- or con is now in agreement that the police department is incompetent and an independent inquiry will need to be held.
Not much of anything. It could be a scar for all I can tell. The image is enhanced so much that every shadow could be something. And I would imagine that someone that got their head slammed repeatedly of of the pavement would have a fractured skull, or a lot more than what it looks like in that pic.
Yup, I am having trouble viewing the "victim" in a vacuum that the media is trying to present him in. It is becoming more and more apparent that Trayvon embraced some rather antisocial behavior. That is not to say Zimmerman had the right to kill him, but I don't think we should discount Trayvon's social media behavior, as it may give us a relevant clue as to how he may have acted in confronting Zimmerman. I do have an anti-teenager bias though.
The head is very tough to fracture. but he may have a concussion from that. I blow to the back of the head is a very serious blow and can virtually takes ones equilibrium and abilty to see and or focus..to me what I am seeing is what he described a head split from hitting his head from being knocked backwards onto a curb..Im surprised he wasnt knocked cold from that.
Yeah that's the very curious plot hole that nobody seems to be talking about. It's possible Zimmerman got preferential treatment because of this. I wonder if the cops were familiar with Zimmerman by now, considering he called them like 40 times last year. Again this is just speculation and it's possible they had no idea his dad was a judge. It is very curious that the investigator wanted charges but the state attorney overruled him.
Well, that's kind of my point. If he had any serious injury, I don't think he would be able to walk. And I think there would be more damage to his head. I have had a fractured skull (car accident when I was a kid) and I could not get around let alone just stand up straight for days. And my head was a mess. I don't think Zimmerman was having his head bashed around like he is claiming.
Some people have harder heads than others. You can't just discount his story just because your experience differs. It's apples and oranges to compare the two situations anyway.
I am pretty sure I read somewhere that the cops were aware of his father being a judge (or retired judge) I will have to look for that...
I had my scull fractured when I was in -er- "college" . Got piped. It was a hairline fracture, but head wounds bleed a LOT and the bleeding is hard to stop. How is it that Zimmerman appears to be completely devoid of any blood on his clothing after having allegedly had his head split open on the pavement?
Very true, I also added before that I have witnessed a fair amount of fights, and any seriously scary fights did not end pretty. I also think, hard head or not, that if there was serious damage being done, he wouldn't be walking so easily. I do realize this is all my opinion/experience btw - and that there are always different circumstances and outcomes.
it took a car accident trauma, thats my point..again when the adreneline is pumping the body can do so crazy things, hard to say but he was screaming for his life for help.. blood curdling screams, its possible he couldnt move and was afraid he was going to be killed and reduced to firing.. and then staggered to his feet after.. who knows.. Zimmerman is young , 28, so he is lucky in that regard, and older person may have not been able to recover to get up..
He had changed clothes in that video..and did get treatment from EMS. just didnt go to hospital.. the original report says he had a red shirt on..and it was soaking wet on the back..grass stains etc
This is true. At least for me too. I was in bad shape, blood everywhere, throwing up blood...it was not pretty. Thankfully I have so much hair that you would never be able to see the scar now. I think this video was taken a few hours after the killing, though. So he may have had time to change? His head really doesn't look bad though.
Nobody here can answer that. Don't miss the bigger picture: there are witnesses including a 13-year old kid who saw the attack and they corroborate Zimmerman. Maybe he is just a pussy like Travis said and didn't know how to fight. But that is pure conjecture.
Can you link me something that says that it was definitely Zimmerman screaming for help? I was under the impression that nobody is sure if that was him or Trayvon. And, it took one single blow to my head - but even after these repeated slams Zimmerman's head does not have much of anything to show for it. Maybe he does just have a hard head and was resistant to the beating he says he was getting...it just seems highly unlikely to me.
Many news accounts say witnesses heard GZ screaming for help. Trayvon was the one on top delivering the beating at the time of the screams, per the witnesses. However his parents say it was him screaming. So it's their word vs the witnesses and a police station with zero credibility.
