The Official 2010-2011 NHL thread

Yeah, but look at the games Vancouver has won. Vancouver's scored 5 goals over 3 games. That's incredibly bad. And they managed to come away with wins in all three. You can't focus on one and then ignore the other.

Besides, Vancouver scored three goals over the games in Boston. I don't know how you can indict Luongo but not the rest of the team. Unless he went all Nagano Hasek on the Bruins, there's no way Vancouver walks away with either of the first two games, and most likely the third as well.

He was very good in Vancouver, but then it's much easier to be good when you are at home. He basically played the way he was supposed to in Vancouver. You don't get bonus points for doing what you're supposed to do. If he had, had "off" games in Boston, that would have been one thing, but he was downright fucking terrible instead. Vancouver had a couple of chances at the beginning of game 5 and maybe if Luongo doesn't let 3 goals in on 8 shots maybe his team doesn't get morally deflated and mail the rest of the game in.

And yes, the entire Vancouver team played badly in Boston, but part of that is because of how badly Luongo played.

lol at allowing 2 goals over 3 games being adequate

What metric are you judging goalies by? And why are you blaming Vancouver's offensive struggles on the goaltender?

Can we just agree that Vancouver is terrible and get on with our lives?

I said "very good." He's supposed to play "very good (well)." He supposed to be an elite goaltender or at least that's what people kept telling me. The metric I'm using is "the goalies who do or do not allow 15 goals in 2.3 games" scale.

And he is partly responsible for the Canucks' struggles on the road because it's tough to play offense when you have to play catch-up. When you're down 4-0, it allows the other team to change their defensive scheme, thus making it even more difficult to score goals.

And Zoe, I can't agree that the Canucks are terrible, but they haven't played well in this series at all. Boston has been competitive in all 6 games while Vancouver has only been competitive in 3 of them.

lol at letting in 2 goals in three games being what Luongo's "supposed to do"

It's OK if you think that, but then Thomas' play at home this series has been nothing special either. And his play in Vancouver has been poor. You can't have it both ways.

Furthermore, you don't think elite goalies have bad games? That they don't occasionally have brutal games, even when it matters most? And that occasionally those games come close to each other?

That's a lot of stipulations. And no, I don't think elite goalies have 3 brutal games out of 6 in the Stanley Cup final.

Hmm. I was under the impression you thought Martin Brodeur was an elite goalie.

I would just like to point out that you also get a lot of series and games where you can't blame the goalies for incredibly high scores, lack of effective defence will kill you too. Particularly I'm thinking of Game 4. I thought the first 2 goals were terrible, terrible defensive collapses. Don Cherry said it as well. Ryder's goal was unforgivable, however. But that's it. I don't think Luongo is not playing terribly though. Not my argument. I think he was helpless in game 4, only that game though; 3 and 6 were bad. I think a goalie is allowed one bad goal per game. But it's hard to keep that one bad goal the only goal against when your D can't read all the plays effectively.

Which series?

2001 NHL playoffs, Colorado vs. New Jersey. The similarities are actually quite striking. Playing for the President's Trophy winning team with the best defence in the league, Brodeur posted an 0.870 save percentage over 7 games. Particularly bad were Game 1 (5 goals on 30 shots), game 4 (2 goals on 12 shots), and game 6 (4 goals on 22 shots).

In comparison, Luongo has a 0.895 save percentage in this Finals.

Brodeur has always had the benefit of a top-notch defense in front of him. I don't believe for a second that he's as good as people think he is.

Exactly. And how often do you hear about that brutal Finals performance? Never. Because he's a "clutch goalie" who "only cares about winning," the collective sports media has completely forgotten about it. Just like Roy's bad games and series.

Well. Preferably not. And elite netminders really shouldn't have any. But goaltenders will always let a stinker or two in. It's inevitable, nobody's perfect. I don't think it's fair to expect every goaltender to only ever let in perfect/greasy unstoppable goals, because then we'd have way more shutouts. Yes it's what they're supposed to do, but I think at least one goal per game is expected of a majority of teams, yeah? I don't think every one of those is going to be a toe drag, deke to the left and a backhander over the goalie's glove. My main point is: a shitty goal will slip in almost every game, can't kill a goalie over it.

I think a "bad goal" implies it was mostly the goalie's fault, which I don't think you're talking about.

I mean, when you really think about it, shutouts are the result of good play and a big dose of luck. Ultimately, a goalie doesn't control what screen shots from the point hit him or not, or whether opposing players whiff on shots, or any number of bounces and breaks that occur in the course of a game.

Welp, it's time to hit up the pub & watch the game.
All things aside this should be one hell of a game!

Fair enough. Though Brodeur had 2 Cups at that point and wasn't trying to fight down a reputation for falling apart on the big stage. But that was a pretty shitty series for him though.

Luongo is still just a good goalie, not a great one, and he certainly hasn't improved his case in this series.

Eh, I don't really consider a Stanley Cup the mark of a great goalie. I don't, for example, think that Luongo's superior to Brodeur because of their respective performances in in the 2010 Olympics.

And I'd say Luongo's a great goalie. He was the best goalie in the league prior to the lockout, and he's been a top 5 tender every year since then. I would either peg him, Vokoun, or Thomas (albeit Thomas has a smaller body of work to draw from) as the best goalie of the past 10 years.

Yeah, that's true. I guess my definition of bad goal is one that shouldn't have been a goal, but was. You can blame these things on one aspect of the game (off, def or goaltending), but usually it's one big mess up across all three.

So who would be better all things included, then?

Yup. This is about what I expected.

In an hour, I'll be too drunk to care. I love hockey. <3

OH MY GOD I CAN'T BELIEVE THIS IS HAPPENING

I iz sad. Congrats Bruins.......but damn I really thought this was finally the Canuck's year. ...............................and trade luongo.

FUCK GARY BETTMAN YEAH

TRADE LUONGO.

I WON $110!!!

FUCK YEAH ME!!!

$110 sure is better than your team getting out of the second round

MULLIGAN.

amazing. I'm shocked the Canucks rolled over like that.

Well, it's close to it. My team has 4 Stanley Cups since 1997, the last in '08. I'm not hurtin'.

lol riots in canda

Great run by the Nucks, I love my team.

Can't believe the entire Canucks team (except for Kesler) just shriveled up by the end of the 2nd.

I liked how with a minute and a half left Kesler was still fucking goin'.

pretty sure you haven't watched any of their last 20 or so playoff series'

Overall, it was a fun series. Lots of passion and bad blood, especially early in the series.

congrats to the bruins and tim thomas, they deserved that one. luongo deserves a trade.

my best friends are all bruins fans. that's what sucks about liking a west coast team and living on the east coast.. it's only a matter of time before that happens.

also I live with a Rangers' fan who thinks it's still 1994.

basically my life sucks

Doesn't that describe all Rangers' fans?

Disappointing for a Stanley Cup final game 7. Should be interesting to hear about all the Canucks that will need surgery. Looking forward to July 1.

Edit: I just realized something. The Flyers have lost to the eventual cup winning team each of the last three seasons. fuck

but 1994!

Yeah, pretty much. I wasn't pulling for either team, I just wanted to see some great hockey.

Bruins >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Raggers

Good series. Though the reffing was still terrible. Call all of it or none of it. There were some soft calls made and some hard plays not called. Shameful.

Congrats Bruins. Congrats Canucks, you had a good run, and I don't doubt that the Sedins will win a cup for that city yet.

Also. Canucks fans were decent. At least they didn't boo when the trophy was given out to the other team (like Philly, Detroit and Pittsburgh). I was in a sports bar where there was a bit of shouting, so I thought I heard cheering for the cup and certain Bruins players.

I didn't want to see the Bruins win, but it is good to see the creepy ginger twins fail.

Tim Thomas isn't a creepy ginger?