The Mixed Martial Arts Thread and also Frank Shamrock appreciation thread

Roberto Duran · Nov 17, 2006

I know some people here watch MMA, so I decided to start a thread. Also because UFC 65 is tomorrow night and there's huge news dealing with PRIDE possibly doing business with the WWE.

--The biggest news of the day is that officials from the Pride Fighting Championships are meeting with officials from WWE about a business relationship. I've been aware of interest from both sides for about a month, at least from the time the WWE/Bob Sapp negotiations started. Part of the Sapp proposal involved the sides working together in promoting Sapp as both a pro wrestling superstar and MMA superstar. However, Sapp was planned by WWE to start on 10/29, and that day has come and gone and he hasn't signed a contract due to all the expected problems and his planned storyline was given to someone else. Regarding certain speculations:

*There is no way there will be a joint show in the U.S. of Pride fights and WWE matches on the same bill. No athletic commission will allow it, and neither side would probably want it because the mix doesn't work. It didn't work in Japan, and it will not work even more in the U.S.
*For Pride to work with WWE, due to the credibility issue, shows desperation on their part, which has been evident since losing television and trying to target the more difficult to crack U.S. market.
*The only viable things that can come out of this are:
A) WWE gets an ownership interest in Pride, and then gets them a time slot on the USA Network, perhaps at 11 p.m. on Mondays, since that was the time slot that put UFC on the map in the first place. Keep in mind of the brass in WWE, virtually all are completely clueless about MMA. Shane McMahon is a fan but his knowledge of MMA is very limited. Paul Heyman has a strong business level knowledge since he had looked into starting an MMA promotion at one point. After that, aside from a few lower level people who are big fans, you've got nothing. Vince McMahon understood more about bodybuilding, and as much if not more about football, as he knows about MMA (which is nothing whatsoever). However, if he's got an ownership interest, he'll call the shots. And he has big-time level experience in making characters and producing television that nobody has. But when he tried that in bodybuilding, his characters were so cartoonish that it was a disaster. His "character making" is not the kind of character making that has worked in the past in a real sport situation.
B) The two sides agree to cross promote someone with the idea of giving a guy a few wins in Pride making him "more legit" for pro wrestling and pro wrestling making him famous for Pride so he can draw on PPV--basically the idea every MMA promotion in the world was looking at as to why Kurt Angle was in such huge demand. But that's a big risk. Whenever WWE has messed with reality--whether it be Brawl for All--letting outside entities do documentaries on the real world of WWE, or even the 2004 Tough Enough, it has wound up from a company standpoint in disaster every time out. I can't imagine this happening, but who could have imagined Brawl for All until it happened? And Vince McMahon isn't always very good when it comes to learning lessons from mistakes.

The point is, they can fix matches in Japan because there is no commission, but they can't in the U.S. because it's simply not worth risking the penalties. McMahon's company is publicly traded and fixing fights would risk a billion dollar company for relatively little upside. Also, with the exception of Bobby Lashley, there is nobody in WWE today that could be cross-promoted, and even in safe fights, there are never any guarantees without fixing things. WWE never had interest in Kevin Randleman when he was younger, and his Pride career is on the downswing. Phil Baroni has a pro wrestler personality but would have to learn from scratch. There is no way to predict how he would do in-ring. Randleman with proper training has an athletic base to be incredible in the ring.
C) What they have in common is this. UFC. People are very tight-lipped about what this is about, other than these are two organizations with one common enemy and common goal, which is keeping UFC from getting any stronger than it already is. Pride can't compete with UFC in the U.S. without television. We've heard nothing about the October buy rate, and if it was good, we'd have probably heard. WWE is losing to UFC on PPV in the U.S., sometimes by a four-to-one or five-to-one basis in the U.S. That wouldn't be such a big deal, except it is often brought up in the media, and that's a perception that causes WWE doesn't like of them being portrayed the old business from the past being surpassed by the new business. You could really tell with the reaction when that was printed in Newsweek.
This could easily go nowhere. It's hard enough dealing with WWE in business if you are dealing from strength. Pride is dealing from weakness, and thus, WWE pretty much can name their demands. They don't have any need to do business with Pride.

Here's tomorrow night's card:
Antoni Hardonk vs. Sherman Pendergarst
James Irvin vs. Hector Ramirez
Jake O'Brien vs. Josh Shockman
Nick Diaz vs. Graison Tibau
Alessio Sakara vs. Drew McFedries
Joe Stevenson vs. Dokonjonosuke Mishima
Brandon Vera vs. Frank Mir
Heavyweight Title: Tim Sylvia vs. Jeff Monson
Welterweight Title: Matt Hughes vs. Georges St. Pierre

Predictions anyone?

portnoy_theater · Nov 17, 2006

Re: The Mixed Martial Arts Thread

I don't see the big attraction with this kind of human cockfighting. We all know that shaolin monks, boxers, bouncers and Bruce Lee could take these guys out with little to no trouble.

Roberto Duran · Nov 17, 2006

Re: The Mixed Martial Arts Thread

portnoy_theater · Nov 17, 2006

Re: The Mixed Martial Arts Thread

Dude, bouncers fight ON THE STREET. MMA guys only know how to fight rules. Armbars don't work in real life.

Roberto Duran · Nov 17, 2006

Re: The Mixed Martial Arts Thread

portnoy_theater said:

Dude, bouncers fight ON THE STREET. MMA guys only know how to fight rules. Armbars don't work in real life.

I want to see your bouncer take on Fedor.

portnoy_theater · Nov 17, 2006

Re: The Mixed Martial Arts Thread

anyways now that the obligatory trolling is out of the way, I can see gsp becoming the next ww champ.

portnoy_theater · Nov 17, 2006

Re: The Mixed Martial Arts Thread

also i think Monson/Sylvia will be similar to Sylvia/Ricco, unfortunately.

Meshuggah Martini · Nov 17, 2006

Re: The Mixed Martial Arts Thread

UFC is my favorite sport to watch. I don't have to have a favorite to enjoy the competition. I am not spending the money on the PPV tomorrow night. Will they show these UFC events at a sports bar?

I think GSP might win but I think Matt Hughes seems like the better charcter.

edit: On a similar topic I saw a sign up for a Gracie Jiu-Jitsu school here in Reno, NV. http://www.bjjreno.com/ Is is only $45 a month for a class a week. I so badly want to get into that if I had the money and the place is only 2.3 miles from my house.

Rameau Thierry · Nov 17, 2006

Re: The Mixed Martial Arts Thread

Please don't post any new threads about the results of UFC 65. If you post results, just do it in this thread so I can avoid looking at it.

Ricco was intimidated as hell in that fight, his takedown attempts looked so half-assed. I haven't seen many of Ricco's fights, so maybe his takedowns are weak for a wrestler, I don't know. Monson has never really beaten a major fighter though, he will probably get his ass handed to him.

Rameau Thierry · Nov 17, 2006

Re: The Mixed Martial Arts Thread

Alex S said:

portnoy_theater said:

Dude, bouncers fight ON THE STREET. MMA guys only know how to fight rules. Armbars don't work in real life.

I want to see your bouncer take on Fedor.

This video is epic! The way it builds up to the Crocop fight moves me deeply.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=494AsxLeK0c]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=494AsxLeK0c[/ame]

There was a really awesome video featuring Crocop and Fedor highlights to the music of deathcore band All Shall Perish, but sadly it has vanished.

Roberto Duran · Nov 17, 2006

Re: The Mixed Martial Arts Thread

Really, the UFC heavyweight division is full of jobbers.

Roberto Duran · Nov 17, 2006

Re: The Mixed Martial Arts Thread

Tommy Habeeb said:

Alex S said:

portnoy_theater said:

Dude, bouncers fight ON THE STREET. MMA guys only know how to fight rules. Armbars don't work in real life.

I want to see your bouncer take on Fedor.

This video is epic! The way it builds up to the Crocop fight moves me deeply.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=494AsxLeK0c]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=494AsxLeK0c[/ame]

There was a really awesome video featuring Crocop and Fedor highlights to the music of deathcore band All Shall Perish, but sadly it has vanished.

Tool + Fedor Thanks for the link.

Roberto Duran · Nov 17, 2006

Re: The Mixed Martial Arts Thread

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=es9y61kSgF0"]YouTube - Frank Shamrock to fight in the UFC[/ame]
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YXk9FWnJnf4"]YouTube - Frank Shamrock vs. Phil Baroni[/ame]
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4FJp7grSQkU"]YouTube - Phil Baroni goes to Frank Shamrock's Dojo![/ame]
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X5pQKP4caT4&eurl="]YouTube - Phil Baroni + Josh Thompson[/ame]

Frank Shamrock is God.

portnoy_theater · Nov 17, 2006

Re: The Mixed Martial Arts Thread

Tommy Habeeb said:

Ricco was intimidated as hell in that fight, his takedown attempts looked so half-assed. I haven't seen many of Ricco's fights, so maybe his takedowns are weak for a wrestler, I don't know.

yeah, despite his elite grappling skills he just doesn't seem to have the chin/heart of someone like Nog to beat a fighter like Sylvia.

Meshuggah Martini · Nov 17, 2006

Re: The Mixed Martial Arts Thread

Alex S said:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=es9y61kSgF0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YXk9FWnJnf4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4FJp7grSQkU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X5pQKP4caT4&eurl=

Frank Shamrock is God.

Wow he talks alot of shit.

Surly Al · Nov 17, 2006

Re: The Mixed Martial Arts Thread

Lee Martini said:

Will they show these UFC events at a sports bar?

Some might, but not too likely.

Lee Martini said:

UFC is my favorite sport to watch. I don't have to have a favorite to enjoy the competition. I am not spending the money on the PPV tomorrow night.

Most of the highlights show up on Youtube or similar within an hour or two of the fights. If I see any links, I'll post them here.

Here's a gif of the end of Franklin's last fight. (Big GIF, just posting a link so it doesn't drag down the forum loading time).

Rameau Thierry · Nov 17, 2006

Re: The Mixed Martial Arts Thread

There's a big list on the UFC website of the places showing the event, here are the places in Reno for Lee-dogg.

Bullys #1 Reno NV 775 825-4333
Bullys #6 Reno NV 775 825-4333
El Dorado Casino Reno NV 775 785-9083
Fantasy Girls Reno NV 775 745-9461

Roberto Duran · Nov 18, 2006

Re: The Mixed Martial Arts Thread

Bizump.

I might go to the local Hooters to watch fights and tits.

portnoy_theater · Nov 18, 2006

Re: The Mixed Martial Arts Thread

Alex S said:

Bizump.

I might go to the local Hooters to watch fights and tits.

whom will you be rooting for, the gsp or hughes?

Roberto Duran · Nov 18, 2006

Re: The Mixed Martial Arts Thread

St. Pierre.

Meshuggah Martini · Nov 18, 2006

Re: The Mixed Martial Arts Thread

Tommy Habeeb said:

There's a big list on the UFC website of the places showing the event, here are the places in Reno for Lee-dogg.

Bullys #1 Reno NV 775 825-4333
Bullys #6 Reno NV 775 825-4333
El Dorado Casino Reno NV 775 785-9083
Fantasy Girls Reno NV 775 745-9461

El Dorado for the win. They are showing it on projection tvs for free and is only located 2.3 miles from my house.

On the subject of MMA. I have been watching MMA and UFC since August and it has really insipred me and made me feel more confident about myself. I have been running, biking and lifting weights more.

Meshuggah Martini · Nov 19, 2006

Re: The Mixed Martial Arts Thread

Spoilers

I am back and I had fun. I would have had more fun had my wife came along with me. It was definitly worth the $2.00 in gas. It drew quite a big crowd.

I orginally wanted Matt Hughes to win but after hearing all the stupid drunk Americans yelling USA USA!! f*ck Canada I decieded like always and to go against the grain and root for GSP. Which GSP won and really set the pace of the fight. GSP was moving on double time comparred to Matt Huges.

Surly Al · Nov 19, 2006

Re: The Mixed Martial Arts Thread

Here's a link to the Hughes / St. Pierre fight, (you have to register, though)
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xnzia_ufc65-mayy-hughes-vs-georges-st-pie

Ne0rC · Nov 19, 2006

Re: The Mixed Martial Arts Thread

Thank god Hughes lost. I hate when a guy wins a lot and everyone thinks he's invincible.

Roberto Duran · Nov 19, 2006

Re: The Mixed Martial Arts Thread

YEAH FUCK QUITE POSSIBLY THE 2ND GREATEST FIGHTER EVER. FUCK HIM.

portnoy_theater · Nov 19, 2006

Re: The Mixed Martial Arts Thread

ok serra is going to have to do something drastic or he's getting ktfo.

Rameau Thierry · Nov 19, 2006

Re: The Mixed Martial Arts Thread

GSP dominated the shit out of him, it was like Crocop vs. Coleman or something. I'm not surprised at all that he won, but I didn't expect it to be almost completely 1-sided.

Valiant effort by the Snowman, but he had his chance and he blew it! It was the only fight that I got to watch without the ending being spoiled (fucking assholes labeling videos with the results of the match). Did anyone else notice Josh Barnett backstage with Monson?

Sylvia vs. Vera should be a good one

portnoy_theater · Nov 19, 2006

Re: The Mixed Martial Arts Thread

I think Josh corners most of Monson's fights. Funny how the best heavyweight in the building was a cornerman.

Roberto Duran · Nov 19, 2006

Re: The Mixed Martial Arts Thread

For the next Hughes/GSP rematch, Hughes has gotta protect his nutz better. And go for more takedowns.

Matt Serra is going to get fucking destroyed.

portnoy_theater · Nov 20, 2006

Re: The Mixed Martial Arts Thread

Alex S said:

Matt Serra is going to get fucking destroyed.

He'll be in the sauna before you can say quebec.

Spectre5 · Nov 20, 2006

Re: The Mixed Martial Arts Thread

portnoy_theater said:

ok serra is going to have to do something drastic or he's getting ktfo.

Serra was going to get destroyed no matter who won.
I feel really sorry for the guy who has to fight Anderson Silva.

All those fights were great except the Silvia/Monson snoozfest. The ref should not have to tell the CHAMPION to fight!

I gave GSP a pretty decent chance, but I still thought Hughes would win. I never thought it would be so 1-sided.

glassprisoner · Nov 20, 2006

Re: The Mixed Martial Arts Thread

I find it mildly entertaining. The only thing I don't like is it often just ends up a boxing match, or worse , on the floor.

portnoy_theater · Nov 20, 2006

Re: The Mixed Martial Arts Thread

Spectre5 said:

portnoy_theater said:

ok serra is going to have to do something drastic or he's getting ktfo.

Serra was going to get destroyed no matter who won.

I know, but at least with Hughes he would've matched up better. With GSP there's a much greater chance of a brutal (standing) ko.

portnoy_theater · Nov 20, 2006

Re: The Mixed Martial Arts Thread

GlassPrisoner said:

The only thing I don't like is it often just ends up a boxing match, or worse , on the floor.

Klem · Nov 20, 2006

Re: The Mixed Martial Arts Thread

portnoy_theater said:

GlassPrisoner said:

The only thing I don't like is it often just ends up a boxing match, or worse , on the floor.

That's what I was thinking. If you don't want a stand up fight and you don't want a fight on the ground, what else is there?

Roberto Duran · Nov 21, 2006

Re: The Mixed Martial Arts Thread

GlassPrisoner said:

I find it mildly entertaining. The only thing I don't like is it often just ends up a boxing match, or worse , on the floor.

This comment made me LOL.

UFC 67 is the Saturday before the Superbowl

Here's the matchups so far:
Anderson Silva vs. Travis Lutter
Georges St. Pierre vs. Matt Serra
Nathan Marquardt vs. Dean Lister

The Silva/Lutter match should be interesting. Looks like GSP/Hughes III will be in Montreal. Maybe a "FUCK USA" chant will start.

Also, why does Tommy Habeeb have Buff Bagwell in his avatar? Buff is not the stuff and is a fagget.

Roberto Duran · Nov 21, 2006

Re: The Mixed Martial Arts Thread

It also appears that Frank Shamrock vs. Phil Baroni is on for December 8 for Strikeforce. Shamrock will kill him.

Rameau Thierry · Nov 21, 2006

Re: The Mixed Martial Arts Thread

Buff Bagwell is my idol.

EddieWouldGo · Nov 21, 2006

Re: The Mixed Martial Arts Thread

After the Matt Hughes VS GSP, GSP was talking to someone and started screaming in joy "Montreal!!" was that about his rematch with Hughes in Montreal?

GSP VS Serra should be good, I really don't see Serra winning.

Roberto Duran · Nov 21, 2006

Re: The Mixed Martial Arts Thread

Tommy Habeeb said:

Buff Bagwell is my idol.

His mom is quite possibly the greatest professional wrestler ever .

Rameau Thierry · Nov 21, 2006

Re: The Mixed Martial Arts Thread

Also that little cartoon is supposed to be Crocop as a SF2 character.

Roberto Duran · Nov 21, 2006

Re: The Mixed Martial Arts Thread

Tommy Habeeb said:

Also that little cartoon is supposed to be Crocop as a SF2 character.

That is awesome. Somebody should make me a Frank Shamrock Street Fighter cartoon thing-a-ma-jig.

Hellholming · Nov 21, 2006

Re: The Mixed Martial Arts Thread

so, i'm late coming into this thread.. copied my thoughts from another thread:

So, Georges St. Pierre is a beast! Man, he dominated Matt Hughes, I definitely didn't see that one coming. I thought he had a good chance of winning, but not with a knockout in the second round.

Tim Sylvia is the most boring champion ever, I was really rooting for Jeff Monson to submit his ass, but unfortunately my prediction was right and Sylvia won. I knew the reach advantage for Sylvia would be too much for Jeff, who did put up a great fight.

Frank Mir seems washed up, unfoirtunately. He didn't even look like he wanted to fight, seemed out of place even before stepping into the octagon. Brandon Vera scored a nice knockout victory, he seems to be the next in line for Sylvia's title, unless they bring in Aleksander Emelianenko from Pride, which is something I've heard a rumour of.

portnoy_theater · Nov 21, 2006

Re: The Mixed Martial Arts Thread

i fucking hate baroni.

hopefully shammy's still in great shape, but the fact he hasn't faced a quality fighter since ortiz (one of the best fights ever btw) has me a little worried.

Roberto Duran · Nov 30, 2006

Re: The Mixed Martial Arts Thread

You know, I feel like bumping this thread for no reason. Also because Matt Hughes is a draw. Hughes/Penn got 700,000 buys.

ProggleRock · Nov 30, 2006

Re: The Mixed Martial Arts Thread

Serra doesn't stand a chance against JSP, unfortunately. He didn't stand a chance against Hughes, either, but I think that would've been a better match.

Rameau Thierry · Jan 26, 2007

Re: The Mixed Martial Arts Thread

Did anyone else catch the fat, out of shape Herring put on the worst performance of all time? Great way to introduce yourselves to the new fans and effectively destroy any chance of reviving your career. He looked like he hadn't even been fucking training.

EddieWouldGo · Jan 26, 2007

Re: The Mixed Martial Arts Thread

Herring said after the fight he wanted to keep the fight standing up, he had zero defense on the mat, no defense on takedowns, it was a joke. Get him out of the UFC this is Mixed Martial Arts not a street fight. You can't win fights by simply having strong punches anymore, he will need to work on his technique. He seemed really out of place VS O'Brien as soon as he steps in the Octagon with someone trained in Ju-Jitsu or another great mat wrestler, he's doomed.

Rameau Thierry · Jan 26, 2007

Re: The Mixed Martial Arts Thread

He's such a hypocrite too, when he fought Crocop all he did was go for the takedown because he was scared to stand with him.

Roberto Duran · Jan 26, 2007

Re: The Mixed Martial Arts Thread

Absolutely beautiful.

Oh yeah, Herring is a big fucking faggot.

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