The Criterion Collection appreciation thread

Millennium Actress
Ikiru
Audition
A Scene At the Sea
Princess Mononoke
Seven Samurai
Rainbow Song
Kikujiro
Grave of the Fireflies (1988)
All About Lily Chou-Chou
Always: Sunset on Third Street
House
Tampopo
Sonatine
High and Low
Ugetsu
Memories of Matsuko
Rashomon
Noriko's Dinner Table
Spirited Away
Kabei: Our Mother
Confessions
Voices of a Distant Star
Dead Or Alive: Hanzaisha
Mind Game (2004/Masaaki Yuasa)
Cold Fish
Perfect Blue
Throne of Blood
Tony Takitani
5 Centimeters Per Second
Departures
Paprika

List is in no particular order.

This is all off the top of my head and I've probably forgotten some important ones.

I'm not well versed in Mizoguchi and I have not seen any Ozu. Someone else may be able to expand on their films.

I'd have included End of Evangelion but you'd have to see all of the original Neon Genesis Evangelion television series first. Which you should do.

Oh, and Milo & Otis

Great, I'll get back to you when I'm sixty.

In the meantime, I do remember that I saw... fuck I don't remember the name of it. Criminal wakes up in a hotel room, bad/gross sushi, almost Bourne Identity-esque. Didn't like it at all. Thanks for the list though, I'll try and crack out the ones on Netflix pretty soon. I really have no valid reason for ignoring Japanese film, other than I just always seem to pick something else up first.

No idea.

lol I'll try and bold a few that'll show off a large variety. Look back at the list in a minute.

Ninjaedit

Ninjaedit the ninjaedit post: It was Oldboy. But now that I looked it up, that one is South Korean. Meh.

You didn't like Oldboy?

I don't know if it's a certain culture thing I just don't click with or what but while I appreciated it as a film, nothing in it engaged me. I may just need more exposure.

Culture thing? Nothing in the film is exclusive to South Korean culture. You could pretty much take the film and set it anywhere.

Still need to see that.

In fact, I'll try to watch it tonight. Placing the DVD on my desk right now.

I was referring to my turnoff of Asian/Japanese film as a whole, not just that film in particular. It's harder to identify with. I know it's a lame excuse, which is why I'd like more exposure.

Edit, again: And it's not so much plot, either. I know you could put Oldboy anywhere and it would work. I'm talking settings, tones, colors, little nuances like that.

So is that racism or xenophobia?

It's ignorance.

Lee Tamahori directed DIE ANOTHER DAY so maybe that counts?



April Fools

The only Ozu movie I've seen is Tokyo Story - there is very little emphasis on dialogue and it moves at a very slow pace, so it probably isn't as accessible as Kurosawa's work from the same time period (never seen any Mizoguchi). It's definitely something I plan on re-watching in the future as it was somewhat lost on me the first time round, perhaps because I'm so far removed from its target audience and was a little impatient at the time.

List is missing some Koreeda. Try out Still Walking.

The only Mizoguchi I've seen was Women of the Night. It was alright; nothing that really captivated me. I've only seen Early Spring and Tokyo Twilight by Ozu. Both were pretty great. Kon Ichikawa is another classic director (check out The Burmese Harp). Another old standby I always liked is Oshima. Check out In the Realm of the Senses or Pleasures of the Flesh if you want some high-brow sexy-time. All this shit is on Criterion btw.

Oddly enough, I've never seen any Kurosawa. I should fix that.

there's lots of debate on who's more important, between kurosawa and ozu, if you can believe that. ozu is def less accessible and so often overlooked.

though I agree that the cultural difference shouldn't keep one from identifying with the film in some way, I take issue with this. every work is wrapped up in the context of place/time, and there is much that one could say on how the film informs or is informed by South Korean culture/history. to transplant the story elsewhere would be to remove part of what makes that film what it is. also, an American viewer most definitely takes the film in a somewhat different way than a South Korean viewer does. his understanding is from an outsider's perspective.

"important", lol

No shit, dude. I understand all that, of course. But in the case of Oldboy I don't remember any of it being informed by culture/time/place other than what he sees on the television in the 'hotel.' And even that is very small and easy to comprehend. Other than that it was fairly universal and I don't see what could be considered a setback for a foreign viewer. I dunno, maybe I'm not remembering things clearly. I'm going to watch it right now.

Re-watched it to refresh my memory. This was my fourth viewing, I believe.

Yeah, there's nothing in this that screams "KOREA."

While the general time period is important (due to some technology used as part of the plot), you could still set this in so many different places on the planet and have it play out the same.

I think they were both talking more about the directorial style being uniquely influenced by Park being Korean, as well as the acting style. While I don't really notice anything anymore than you do, I do tend to agree that our interpretation is different being westerners.

Please expand on how the directing and acting styles are influenced by their being Korean. Nothing is jumping out at me.

Like I said in my post, I don't really notice it much more than you do. I could probably half-ass some shitty allegory about Korea's rise to prominence, but I don't feel very strongly about that. The only thing that screams KOREA to me is contextualizing it within the grander scheme of Korean revenge films. I was more agreeing with what nomemf said, which I took to mean as every aspect of every film is, in at least some small way, influenced by the place and culture in which it was made. I really couldn't see the movie being made in a similar way in Hollywood by an American director. Again, the base story itself is from a Japanese manga, so maybe it isn't just Korean, but I don't see how you can say it'd be equivalent if it were made in any other country. The atmosphere and scenery in Oldboy just make it for me.

This is getting really off topic though lol.

it's not that there's a "setback" for a foreign viewer, it's that there is necessarily a subtext here in terms of how the director and actors consciously choose to represent south korea (since this is its setting) and south korean characters, and there's value to that.

basically I'm against telling people "oh the plot is universal, you can definitely identify with it" in favor of "yes, some things here might not be readily understood and it might take effort, and you're going to have to deal with that." if I have to oversimplify it for them to become willing then I honestly don't care what they think of it.

You misunderstood me.

What I meant was...this story could take place in many, many, many places around the world with barely any changes made and still function pretty much identically. There is almost no intrinsic cultural significance. It's universal.

I'm not debating whether it would or wouldn't be made differently by a different filmmaker in a different market with different expectations. Because it probably would be. That wasn't what I was talking about at all.

Oldboy is a Japanese manga.


MINDFUCKERS

This debate is silly, the context is there if you so want it to be. If you dont care about that aspect or wish it not to be there.... POOOF its gone. Don't tell other people how they must view movies. If for you a Korean movie is a window into a different culture etc. fine that doesn't mean its 1) actually there 2) not there 3) shut up.

indeed, how the director chooses to interpret an originally japanese work is also something you could talk about. there's so much there.

and well yeah, people can watch any way they choose. I'm just advocating/defending a particular perspective, because I like to talk about this stuff.

I think it really comes down to how you define function.

Are you even going to make an attempt to explain yourself?

Chill. It seems like you're saying that a film can function fine irrespective of setting or language. Obviously I am disagreeing with that. I don't find that there is anything wrong with either perspective; it's just interesting to see how people think about this stuff. I thought that my post would get that point across. Also, I was trying to keep it brief to let the thread get back on topic.

jesus christ

I'm not talking about film in general. I'm just talking about Oldboy.

LTL has no point so he uses vague rhetoric to cover up for his dumbassery.

i had trouble watching sympathy for mr vengeance because his sister and the activist girl looked the same to me :X

(Oldboy's plot mostly reminded me of an over the top Jacobean revenge tragedy, although with a couple p. big disanalogies, so I think it could take place in any setting to the same extent that Shakespeare can be placed in any setting.)

Oldboy is a film. If you think Oldboy can function fine irrespective of setting or language, then you obviously think it's possible for a film in general to function fine irrespective of setting or language (whether that be in limited cases, or in all cases, doesn't really matter). If you didn't think it was possible for a film to function irrespective of setting or language, then you couldn't find Oldboy to function fine in those circumstances.

Regardless, I was using "a film" to refer to Oldboy, which is "a film." Don't really see why people are getting so twatty about this.

not really, he's actually making pretty salient points

what we're talking about applies to all films. every film, by portraying culture (i.e. a setting, a person acting), necessarily makes choices as to how that culture is represented, by using this dialogue, this particular performance, music, set design, framing, etc. and not another. this informs the experience, is a part of the film and helps to make it what it is. plot can certainly be transplanted, but it would be a different film, telling in some sense a different story.

He's using the ViolentGreen style of arguing where you give broad, sweeping answers to questions that weren't even asked. "I think it really comes down to how you define function.", what a pointless thing to say.

Why do you keep insisting I'm talking about films other than Oldboy? What the hell? I am discussing a single film. No others. How is that difficult to comprehend? How are my thoughts on one film indicative of my thoughts on other films? That is absurd.

Damn, finally Criterion adds a good film to its collection and it was an April Fools joke.

Except you left out the part where I said I was only referring to Oldboy in the first place. Nevertheless, the context of this discussion is how one viewer found Oldboy to be "typically asian" and was turned off by it. So obviously our discussion should relate back to our interpretations of film in general.

However, it does seem as though you are only talking about the function of the story, whereas I was looking more at the function of the overall work. So, my bad if I took what you were saying the wrong way. Still, I don't really understand why what you're saying matters to the discussion at hand; if that's the case, then you're saying the plot itself isn't overtly Korean, and he's saying he recognizes that and that other aspects of the film are probably what gave him that impression.

JULY! Down By Law! Le Havre! Holy awesome!

YES. Finally, I can use the gift card I've been saving since Christmas.

The sale is not just this week, but until the 30th.

Samurai Trilogy BD set will be mine.

Ordered the Samurai Trilogy BD set and also went ahead with the Eclipse set of Kureyoshi Kuarhara films.

I visited the states a month early. Fuck!

My online cart has Paths of Glory, Last Year at Marienbad, Rushmore, and Solaris (all Blu-Ray). $79.96 is still KINDA too much for me ... any advice on one to eliminate?

Not Paths of Glory. That movie owns.

I am going to have to say to keep Rushmore. I am a huge Anderson fan and this was the last on my list of his (besides moonrise which I haven't seen because stupid local cinema) and it surprised me with how good it is. One of, if not, his best.