Alright, this is going to expose me for how little I know about theory, but I've not learned about modes because I don't know the answer to the following question. So, modes like Ionian, Dorian, Phrygian, etc. are major modes, yes? To play them in minor music, does one play two scale degrees down on them as one does to go from standard major to minor? I know nothing about modes, and when I try to research them I butt up against terminology I don't understand. So, if I want to play a Dorian mode in the key of D minor (in before lol numetal), would I start on E since if would start on G in F major? Also, can anybody recommend me any cool modes or scales to work on for heavier, slower, sludgy, kind of doomy/kind of stonery metal?
I don't think you get modes. The church modes (Dorian etc.) basically all fit into the diatonic scale the major scale is Ionian If you start on the second note of the major scale and use that as your root, you have dorian. And so on. So in the key of C Major you have C Ionian, D Dorian, E Phrygian, F Lydian, G Mixolydian, A Aeolian (A Minor), and B Locrian. The minor modes are the ones that have a minor third (the third note is three semitones above the root). Dorian, Phyrgian, Aeolian and Locrian. The major scales have a major 3rd... Ionian, Lydian, Mixolydian. The other thing to do is make the chords in each mode. So start with the root, then the third note, then the fifth. What do you get? In the major modes it makes a major chord. In the minor chords it makes a minor chord. Then go to the second note and make triads by including the fourth and sixth note. And so on. If you pay attention it is like you have the seven notes of a particular key along a wheel. Where that wheel comes to contact with the ground is like what the root is. It is the same seven notes in any one key, but there are seven positions that wheel can be in, the seven modes. So what is the difference between C Ionian and D Dorian? One is CDEFGAB and one is DEFGABc... isn't that the same thing? The difference is that the music can imply the root. When you do that assertively enough, the notes take on different flavors. Likewise, it makes a difference for where the chords are relative to your root. This is easier to understand if you pick up your guitar and play these things. Try alternating the root between every other note you play and the character will emerge. Phrygian and Locrian are the heaviest sounding ones, followed by Aeolian. To see what I mean, try E Phrygian. Playing an E power chord and an F power chord back and forth then throwing in the occasional B and C and back down to B just sounds heavy and shit. Locrian is kind of an insane one that is hard to use. Aeolian is less intense than Phrygian. If you want to go beyond the church modes look into melodic minor, harmonic minor, diminished, diminished 7.
If you want a private lesson over Skype I can give you one, because it's much easier to hear and see these things rather than talk about them - when you already don't get it. To make it simple: You can hear the difference between a "major" song and a "minor" song, right? If you can, then you can probably hear the difference between modes. A mode is just another tonality. The key system (maj/min) is a larger, more inclusive construct, that simply encompasses all possible harmony and then defines it by what quality the tonic chord is - major or minor. A mode is the same thing, but it's less inclusive. If it's "in a mode" it's typically purely diatonic to that mode. It's just another tonality or "key" sound. So modes aren't things you superimpose on completed songs to solo over them - they're just scales that compositions may be based on - like a song based on the major scale, or on the nat. minor scale, there are songs based on the dorian mode, mixolydian mode, etc.
Modes are when you play a scale, and then move your fingers a couple frets higher and play it again!!
mits I don't know if you have access to a piano, but I think that modes are very simple to understand on a keyboard. Just start with a c major scale and play up one octave. That's Ionian mode, or the major scale. Then, start on D and play a scale up one octave, only playing the white notes rather than throwing in the sharps that are usually in D. That's Dorian. Starting on E=Phrygian (when you're playing only the white notes on the keyboard), F=Lydian, G=Mixolydian, A=Aeolian, B=Locrian, as Overtone said.
The answers here so far have been very good. But I wanted to clarify this little bit. The church modes (the ones you call, "Ionian", "Dorian", etc) are always implied to be over the major scale. The Dorian mode is always the second scale degree of the regular major scale. So it is always "the minor scale that has a major sixth in it". And it sounds something like this:
These are helpful too What Kahless said about the piano keys is a very intuitive way to feel it. And seriously, try the thing I mentioned alternating the root and the other notes. For example for E lydian on the high e string play 0-2-0-4-0-6-0-7-0-9-0-11-0-12 and keep doing that pull of idea using all kinds of notes (e.g. 0-4-0-6-0-7-0-11-9-0-6-7) and you will start to feel it.
These answers have been fantastically helpful! You're right, overtone-- I didn't understand modes! >_<
I haven't really worked on understanding modes, so I couldn't give anyone a lesson on it even if I tried really hard, but I think it's still safe to recommend Frank Gambale's "Modes - No more mystery" video. The guy is goofy as hell, but a very good teacher.
That is I understand them, but I haven't had time to fully internalize them. His approach to teaching modes is brilliant.
Another way to think of them is their relation to "light" or "dark" sounds, and their alterations from the major scale) <----LIGHT ................ DARK---->Lydian (#4), Ionian (no alterations), Mixolydian (b7) Dorian (b3 b7) Aeolian (b3 b6 b7) Phrygian (b2 b3 b6 b7) Locrian (b2 b3 b5 b6 b7)
another way to think of them is to not, because there's virtually no purely modal music that exists in present times, and it's more useful to think of the broader concept of "key", rather than try to restrictively define something as modal.
I don't understand that sentiment. I'll happily call something modal when it has static harmony and is based off a certain scale, especially when the scale is not the usual major or minor. Most people will understand that this is what I'm talking about and I'm not even sure what more needs to be done for something to be "purely modal". I might not need to "restrictively define" something as modal, but I might need to "characteristically describe" it that way. Is "So What" not modal?
Marginally. In Jazz it's even a slippery slope, because it's highly chromatic, and while the harmonic backdrop might imply a mode, the melodic shit happening over the top is never purely diatonic. Most stuff that people want to call modal isn't static harmony...that's so rare. It's mostly a Jazz convention, and like I said above it's more even particularly useful to describe what's happening. There are things I would call modal, but what I'm trying to communicate is the limitations in describing something that way. Key is all inclusive Mode is highly exclusive.
