This was kind of born from a discussion in the RAGE thread, but what do people generally consider to be an influencial FPS? NikTh and I were at odds about Halo's effect on the genre and I think The Professional was agreeing with him. Any thoughts? I love a good FPS so I'd love to hear people's thoughts about the genre.
Care to expand on Battlefield 1942 at all? I'm not disagreeing per se, but it does seem somewhat out of place on that list.
I'd love it if people spoke more about why they choose these games, but to be honest most of these so far speak for themselves. I'm particularly interested in more recent games (past 10 years or so?), and the effect of Halo too.
sprawling maps that effectively brought in the "war of attrition" gameplay, vehicles that played into overall balance with vehicle-specific skill sets, soldier types that extended beyond weapon load-outs into roles that player should serve/actions they should focus on, advancements in squad based gameplay, etc. added goldeneye to my original post too. it did more for console shooters imo than Halo. as for halo, it brought a multiplayer style to consoles that had already existed on pc, so it brought well balanced online multiplayer to consoles, and the maps were pretty solid
I'm not an online expert, not my thing, but didn't Team Fortress do the team based thing before BF:1942?
yes and no. I did lump in the popular HL mods in with the HL mention. i can speak to Team Fortress a bit more later, need to get some work done while at work
Continuing the discussion from the other thread... Molon, could you please elaborate exactly what was so innovative about Halo? You say that HL2 did not bring anything new to the table, but I'd be curious to hear what Halo brought to the genre that you consider so valuable. You still haven't actually mentioned what that game has If you strip Halo's popularity aside, a sign of successfull marketing, it did not do anyhing that hadn't been done (probably better) by other games. Anyway, just to be clear here, I enjoyed the first Halo. The multiplayer was fun, and the single-player campaign was worth playing, although not being particularly spectacular in any way. The sequels, however, were some of the worst games I've ever played (or rather, not played, since I didn't finish them). In regards to mentioning that innovation in first-person shoothers has stagnated, I think that's true, but also kind of unsurprising. FPS, by design, is not a genre that allows much room for innovation. What everything boils down to is the player running around shooting things. I guess something that has started becoming popular is to introduce FPS elements into RPGs, and RPG elements into FPS games, which is cool. Anyway, games that have contributed to the genre or influenced it greatly (in my opinion): Wolfenstein 3D - undisputed pioneering FPS endeavor Doom - took the Wolfenstein idea and refined/improved upon it, did more to popularize the FPS genre than any other game Half-Life - introduced heavy use of scripted sequences to advance some kind of plot. Also employed environment puzzles that broke up the typical run-and-gun FPS gameplay Tribes - introduced drivable vehicles in an FPS setting Halo -
I mean, the main thing I can give it is regenerative health in an FPS setting, but I'm not even a huge fan of it. It certainly has had a lasting impact though
Yeah, and I think Halo might've been the first FPS with a dedicated granade button. These kind of design decisions have hardly had the same impact as, say, Half-Life, though.
Halo barely did anything in terms of influence other than making a bunch of original xbox owners horny as fuck
Doom - There's a reason FPS were called DOOM clones for around a decade Quake - Hardware accelerated graphics and proper 3D enviroments, and support for IP based multiplayer games - this was genesis for multiplayer. Half Life - Showed how set pieces and level design could work to produce an immersive game world, fucked every body up with its AI. Unreal Tournament/Quake 3 Arena - Demonstrated what multiplayer was capable of. The first games with capable bots. Goldeneye - Showed fpss could work on consoles. Call of Duty Series - The original for making AI controlled companions an important part of the single player experience, making you feel a part of a greater part of the whole, 4 for everything every other shooter has been trying to copy since. Halo - It popularised the tropes of regenerative health, limited/tactical weapon selection and vehicular combat integrated in a single player campaign, which has plagued shooter design ever since.
Halo Halo 2 Halo 3 Gears of War Gears of War 2 I'll list my reasons for these I just have to go fill my master chief helmet cup with monster cuz I'm losing my buzz.
Wolfenstein 3D for obvious reasons Doom for popularizing and introducing otherwordly components Turok because dinosaurs
Counter-Strike wasn't a mere mod. It was probably more influential to multiplayer games than HL was to singleplayer games.
i did not mean to discount it. there is no denying the massive win and the influence that CS had on the genre. Persistent leveling in FPS, brought to the forefront in Battlefield 2 (which almost made my list) owes a lot to the persistent monetary totals during a CS map
CS's biggest influence probably isn't even the gameplay, rather bringing about the rise of esports in the US. I haven't followed computer games much in the last 5 years, but has there been anything that has tried (and succeeded) to mimic CS's blend of realism and arcade?
Honestly its because, as brilliant as Deus Ex is, its not particularly influential in its design. At least in terms of FPSs.
just popping in to point out a few not mentioned yet. System Shock 2 - extremely influential in the realm of rpg elements in FPS shooter design, as well as atmospheric story telling. Thief: The Dark Project - Not completely a FPS per say, although it did have shooter mechanics in it (arrows, bombs)... nonetheless it was the most influential stealth game. First to use light and sound dynamics, and had a huge influence on overall game design in all first person games with its more sandbox approach to completing tasks and levels. Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six: the defining game for tactical shooters, not the first but the most influential for sure.
Not even the multiple path/story elements? It may not have been the first, but surely it was a significant milestone in advancing that side of the genre.
Might as well just say any first person game involving Warren Spector, its easier to just lump them all together because they build upon similar influential game designs. So remove my Thief bit and just say Warren Spector in general (System Shock, Thief, Deus Ex).
I wish I could say Planetside, but alas no one has truly taken up the torch for that brilliant work of art. PS2 is coming though, so we'll see what happens there.
Expanding on Halo, it also game console FPS players reletively large scale levels with grand, open battlefields full of enemies and NPCs, along with what Squibby mentioned this changed the way we played FPSs. No more running through corridors gunning down enemies with whatever guns you had on you, picking up health and repeating with the occasional sniper section (thanks, Goldeneye) and poorly designed vehicle section (thanks, Goldeneye). Halo had fairly well designed vehicle sections that didn't feel needlessly tacked on, that fit snuggly into the fabric of gameplay cohesively. Now we were making carefull choices about what guns we needed to use, as well as what we may need later in the level. We were ducking behind cover to heal which at the time was new and inventive. Halo wasn't following the games that went before it, it did so many things differently, it changed how FPS games were designed, so much so that I genuinely consider Half Life 2 to be a backwards step in the evolution of the genre, ignoring a number of advances making it feel sometimes dated. Yeah, I know I'm going to get a lot of flak for that, but I don't care. I love Half Life 2, really I do, and I have not enjoyed Halo outside of multiplayer, but I feel it the more important game in the genre. Also, it stole the FPS from the PC and gave it to the console generation, something that is still being felt by PC gamers today (the feeling that the PC version is merely a port is a harsh sting to those who remember the glory days of PC gaming). FPS games are still best suited to the PC, but Halo did such a good job of doing everything the PC already did, sprawling, open maps, higher number of enemies, things that the consoles just weren't capable of, but it also gave console gamers the online multiplayer experience, really for the first time. This as much as anything else makes Halo an important game. Online console games existed, but none caught on like Halo until Modern Warfare came along.
The problem there molon is that none of those were innovations, they all existed on the PC before it. Sure halo is incredibly influential but it wasn't very innovative, and its influence was more along the lines of yes we can do PC style shooters on consoles. Most of its influence is really just passing along its influences. It wasn't the first to use actual 3d environments. It was the first hugely popular one, but not the first. Quakes biggest innovation was the modding tools it gave to players, a lot of the biggest online shooters over the years started as quake mods.
I never claimed they were innovations, only that it was massively influencial. Very few innovations are original, but old ideas used in new ways. Someone said Half Life was influencial because it introduced scripted sequences to advance the plot and used environmental puzzles, but these were hardly original ideas even at the time.
Actually ya know what, I am going to take it back. Planetside was actually very influential. It was one of the first FPS games to use experience gains as a way to unlock weapon and ability upgrades. It truly captured the MMO feel and put it into a FPS, something games like Global Agenda and All Points Bulletin have tried to emulate and unfortunately haven't been nearly as successful with (3rd person, but whatever). The size and amount of control points in the maps also made for insane battles that could take days to finish. I feel like many newer games have attempted to capture that same grandiose feeling with bigger and bigger maps and more dynamic spawning.
Quoting mainly for Tribes mention. That game was way before it's time. Most of the things people think are cool about Halo were done in Tribes, but better. This includes regenerative health, vehicles, team scenarios, sprawling maps...plus you could fucking fly with a jet pack. On top of that it did things Halo never did, like setting up base defense and allowing a multitude of armor/weapon configs. I would say Team Fortress has a lot to owe to Tribes as well.
Tribes=1998 Team Fortress=1996 While we're at it, a lot of what's been said about Tribes was introduced in Tribes 2, I thought, though I could be mistaken. Tribes 2 being released the same year as Halo. Man do I miss Tribes 2, good times were had.
What game before half life had 1 huge continuous world (not cut up stages), told the entire story without cut scenes and all from the viewpoint of a single character, and used environmental or sandbox style puzzles? The thing about Halo, like i said, is that its influence was only by passing along influences. It didnt really ivent those things or even make them popular and games that came after could have easily just been influenced by the same games Halo was. What halo did was say yes we can do PC style FPS games on consoles.
I understood 'influential' to mean 'has or has had a large audience'. More popular = more influential? Every game is influential in some way, but isn't it really the most widely praised and widely played/viewed/watched games that are truly the most influential? I think it's pointless to debate whether or not Halo is influential; it's influencing an enormous amount of people around the globe right now.
No, it means influential. As in having a significant influence on the games/gaming climate to come later. Which is why I find a lot of what's been said in here pretty terrible.
Goldeneye, because it was one of the only truly enjoyable FPS ever to be released (including battlefield 1942)
Halo - It popularised the tropes of regenerative health, limited/tactical weapon selection and vehicular combat integrated in a single player campaign, which has plagued shooter design ever since. Ok plagued.. good
Influential: Halo, Call of Duty 2, Gears of War/Rainbow Six Vegas, Call of Duty Modern Warfare. Halo broke the fame of Goldeneye and broke the norm of stripped down shooters which featured guns and enemies and thats it (Unreal, serious sam, Quake, Jet Force Gemini ololol) though i should mention that half-life refreshed the wolfenstein 3d and Doom styles. Call of Duty 2 took regenerative health from halo and added it to what the history channel shows for about 90% of the year: World War 2. Gears of War/Rainbow Six Vegas saved regenerative health by making chest-high walls and cover spots an industry-standard. CoD Modern Warfare finally brought the online gaming world of shooters to an unprecedented popularity. Innovative: Red Faction: Geo mod, should have been an important part of many games (not necessarily shooters) and eventually, with technology, the status quo. Awesomely balanced and unique weapons (every weapon had been seen before, but red faction created its own fantasy weapons, much like perfect dark) Halo: open aired maps, recharging shield, skill kills (value of headshots and back attacks had mainly been a thing of tactical shooters which werent nearly as popular), quick melee instead of having to switch to a melee weapon (saved console shooters probably) Socom 2: First really amazing tactical shooter in every way. not an fps (tps) but i will probably never stop mentioning it. First shooter that forced me to actually value my life (no respawn !!!) and value communication with a team mate (even the commercials were about a kid who was too busy masturbating to help his teammates and they all died screaming his codename "Jester") Time Splitters 2: Showed that the Goldeneye formula wasnt dead, same with 4-player multi-player in shooters and co-op in shooters. Showed that shooters could still be goofy while having great mechanics and frenzied gameplay. Killzone: the first game at the turn of the century to require me to actually put tremendous effort into killing your enemy. You learned pretty quickly that to get anywhere you had to spare no bullets for later and, waste no time aiming for critical areas. close ranged melee attack made the action more frenzied (it was like a quick-time event which you were pretty vulnerable during but the bullet-saving one-shot kill made the risk worthy of taking,) even charging the enemy who is trying to pin you with covering fire before his friends move in on you. which reminds me: amazingly decisive AI. they either chose to be aggressive or stay back and let you come, as the situation warranted. Not for every game but definitely worthy of emulation. The influential games were the popular ones that had a few solid ideas brought together and as a result shaped the way shooters were made since because what was popular sold and developers only needed to up the production value and make minor-to-moderate changes over time while keeping the great multiplayer mechanics from halo. Atleast the production values were always pretty top-notch. The innovative games had great ideas that were even used well, but they were so much a part of that game, to simply take the scissors, pick it off, and glue on to your game box didnt happen as quickly or easily as regenerative health or headshots or chest-high walls. this also affected accessibility, as when halo came out, people's eyes were opened to decent fps', they wanted more but to make a space shooter with rechargeable sheilds and melee attacks and vehicles over and over again would be stupid, so they change the context to continue to draw that crowd with a new face, some improved good looks, and just a few changes to make you see the obviously better yet minor changes from that game you used to play a few years ago. you know, duck hunt.
Goldeneye/Turok: Making shooters playable and enjoyable on a console Half-Life/Half-Life 2/Counterstrike: Taking narration and physic-based stuff to the next level, popularizing online-deathmatch to unknown heights Doom 3: Giving dynamic lightning a major role in horror shooters CoD Modern Warfare: Making shooters more cinematic and realistic than ever Red Steel: Introducing motion control, making a mouse/keyboard-setup obsolete
The 360 being the most popular next generation console capable of high quality visuals, this list is highly relevant. Of course what I said was hyperbole, but just look at those numbers. Modern Warfare 2 and Black Ops are in the top 5 highest selling PS3 non-exclusives, too (MW2 #1). There's no denying the popularity of the FPS, especially on Xbox, so when mentioning how Halo said "yes, we can" to FPS on console, it is meaningful.
What the hell are you talking about man, Goldeneye said "yes we can", perfect dark said "yes we can", time spliters said "yes we can" and even Obama agrees with that.
