It seems like this issue is long forgotten for many, but I doubt a week goes by where it doesn't cross my mind. We never hear much about the situation, how much radiation is detected nearby, how the building is holding up, etc.. If you look around you can find some news there are varying levels of concern, from mild curiosity to total hysteria, I think that some issues are at the very least worrying. For starters, it sounds like the plants definitely still contain radiation and require constant attention. On top of that, there are still many tremors. The buildings themselves appear to be in very poor condition. I am worried that 1) the buildings/containment can't take much more, and 2) the buildings are not containing the radiation. Every now and then I read that they have found radioactive water leaking out, or detected radiation nearby. In pics it looks like the buildings are falling apart. You have water and cracked concrete. Then I have read some other news that seems less absolute. Most is from Japanese sources, indicating that radiation was found in a certain location or food. The thing is, these could be amateurs testing the radiation levels, and we don't know the radiation levels of these things BEFORE the disaster. I also read a month ago about some seals in Alaska that came ashore sick. They ruled out all the typical causes of those symptoms and were supposed to test them for radiation sickness. This was a month ago and I haven't heard anything whatsoever about the results. So who knows? Then I am most skeptical of the most frightening things pictures of mutated crops, people having weird symptoms and stories about people being threatened or spied on. Impossible to verify the authenticity... people love to BS. Put it all together and I am still very concerned with how much radiation is being released on an ongoing basis. The minor exposure over many years can be just as harmful as bigger short term releases. Chernobyl affected lots of Europe over decades! You don't hear as much about it because you don't have the horror stories of Hiroshima-Nagasaki, or Fallujah in modern times, but many medical authorities believe this played a role in the increased rate of certain illnesses. http://fukushima-diary.com/ Kind of a scaremonger blog, but I am interested in the updates he posts supposedly from Japanese news sites/stations about radiation readings in certain foods. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4580048...est-sick-alaska-seals-radiation/#.TyCCw3rCbTo
I dunno. I think there are two things to worry about. 1 is the radiation in the direct area that people/animals/plants are exposed to. 2 is the release of radioactive particles like cesium. Those can travel far and wide, and release radiation wherever they are. So probably you don't have to worry about #1 unless you are in the immediate area, but #2 is much tougher to avoid.
Not really, but i see a lack of engagement in this kind of topic here. Which will win the retard of the year prize in the GOP seems more interesting for the average 5/8er.
I just see it as one more scary thing out there in a world full of scary things that I personally can't do jack shit about, so it's not worth worrying about. If the whole world gets radiation sickness, so be it.
Because it's politically convenient to sweep it under the rug. We might not be able to do anything to prevent the fallout itself, but we can still help to remove the issue from obscurity, be aware of the reality, and protect ourselves individually. You might think it's all the way in Japan, who gives a shit... but you probably underestimate how much you have contact with products sourced from within the long term fallout zone. And even if it doesn't effect you directly, since when did we stop giving a shit about the people over there? This is an issue the various governments would like us to ignore and forget because we are just statistics to them, but by talking about it and trying to stay aware of the true situation we can make it harder to bury this story.
I would think it's more of an economics thing than a political thing. The reason Japan wants it swept under the rug is because tourism has plummeted, and that fact seems to indicate that people have indeed NOT forgotten about it.
If you want to raise awareness, general discussion perhaps? That's where I would have put it, there was a huge thread on the Japan earthquakes there. Even with all the shit and joke posts, it will still cause more people to see and think about it than here, and here the reason no one is discussing seriously is because there is nothing to discuss. I'm pretty sure everyone agrees that the situation sucks. Now if you wanted to start a thread about the future of nuclear power and used this as an example for the 'con' side, then I can see it going somewhere. I personally think that we will hit a singularity of technology in other renewable energy sources before we will need to shift the majority of power generation to fission. Also, why was this reactor so shittily engineered? I thought Japan was supposed to be good at that kind of thing, but your descriptions makes it sound like something Iran would have designed.
While certainly a big deal, the fallout from this actually appears pretty modest. While they did meltdown 3 of the cores, all of the material stayed within the containment vessels, as it was supposed to. It wouldn't surprise me to see the three-eyed fish from The Simpsons swimming around the Sea of Japan due to all of the water and flooding, but it just doesn't seem to have been a massive radiation disaster. Compare it to Chernobyl, and it's no contest. Those guys lacked any type of containment to begin with. Plus, the whole thing exploded, tossing a great deal of the fissionables into the atmosphere, along with several metric shit-tons of graphite dust. Then it all burned for a week, producing an enormous amount of highly radioactive smoke blowing all over Europe. The explosions at Fukushima were just the buildings blowing up around the containment vessels. The best evidence of this being much, much lower key is that there are currently no reported deaths. Considering that quite a few of those guys remained at the plant throughout the disaster to try and shut things down, that's fairly remarkable. The Rooskies were dropping dead within minutes of flying over Chernobyl in helicopters. I suspect we're going to be hearing about the Fukushima Fifty contracting weird ass forms of cancer pretty soon, but that's certainly a more reassuring outcome than people dropping dead of acute radiation poisoning. It's also worth noting that the Japanese have the perfect disposition for a situation like they encountered. Between Hiroshima and Godzilla, they seem to have tremendous respect for radiation. Then you've got that whole honor thing, where those guys were volunteering to stick around and do what needed to be done. I guess if you're options are to hang tight and die of radiation sickness, or run your ass off and then seppuku yourself later out of shame, then you might as well be a hero. While the Rooskies did have the advantage of the Soviet mentality, radiation or firing squad--your choice, their approach to generating nuclear power seems to be about as sophisticated as cooking up crank in your Cousin Leroy's tool shed. edit for klem: Because they were built by GE in the 60's. I suspect modern Japanese nuclear plants are quite a bit safer.
It was an older model reactor. Supposedly newer designs are safer in that they would be less likely to overheat in the same circumstances. I wouldn't be so confident about all that stuff triple jesus. I agree it is good so far there haven't been any reported deaths. But I am more skeptical of claims that the meltdown didn't breach the containment, or that it won't. In that blog I posted there have been some pics of some serious damage in the buildings, and some of it seemed indicative of the possibility that radioactive material has made it out. Likewise, it seems like every so often they are finding water that is highly radioactive and leaking out. Add the likelihood of further damage occurring due to another quake and I think it is hard to believe that the reactors are in a safe state. There are also all the readings that have been taken by citizens and reporters that haven't been explained yet. And I hope you guys know that typically the good sushi restaurants fly in their fish from Japan. I dunno if that is still the norm.
I'm not suggesting that it's all's well that end's well. As of (I believe) November, there were readings that suggested that fission might still be occurring. Plus, they're going to need a decade to get the thing decommissioned. What I am saying is that there was no explosion, no fire, and no leaking of radioactive materials into the ground water. That makes this thing a big fucking mess, rather than a serious disaster. BTW, I didn't look at the blog yet, but if there are scaremonger pictures, I'll be sure and check it out. I'm pretty curious about the extent of the damage. As for the sushi, doesn't effect me in the slightest. As long as it does nothing to lessen the supply of hot Japanese girls willing to defile and degrade themselves for money and a career in fucked up Japanese porno flicks, this is all just idle chatter for me.
About the no leaking, I would again be skeptical. One thing I'm seeing a lot of in this blog is reports that they are trying to get rid of material by putting it into landfill or by burning it, as well as occasional reports of leaks or difficulties in containment. If these stories are legit it is like they are just smiling and saying "Everything is ok!" while the problem actually spreads and intensifies because of questionable decisions. http://fukushima-diary.com/2011/12/...over-100000-bqkg-is-allowed-to-be-landfilled/ http://fukushima-diary.com/2012/01/...s-container-vessel-is-melting-like-honeycomb/ http://fukushima-diary.com/2011/11/even-tepco-admitted-melt-out-is-occurring/ http://fukushima-diary.com/2011/11/breaking-news-radioactive-debris-arrived-at-tokyo/ http://fukushima-diary.com/2011/11/cement-maker-leaked-13200-t-of-1000bqkg-water-to-the-sea/ The next time I see something in a different source I will post it here just to mix it up a bit.
The containment vessel is below the reactor, the state of the surrounding buildings has pretty much nothing to do with anything. See also, call me when someone dies.
tbh I'm fairly certain you get vastly more irradiated on a typical airline flight than you ever will as a consequence of Fukushima. Don't quote me on that, though.
You guys are very practical. I dont have a problem with that. But there is nothing wrong with talking about something like this. Did you guys know that one plant in Illinois had an emergency shut down and one in California, both in the last week, both releasing small amounts of radioactive steam? Probably not because you have to be actively following to find things out like that. It probably IS inconsequential, and it actually happens all the time... more or less comes with the territory for nuc plants. On the other hand, does the media tell anybody? How reliable are the regulators' measurements when they say one day there was no radiation and the next day oh wait there was, but it is harmless? Awareness and skepticism wont hurt anyone. These are, after all, utility plants. If you keep up with some of the refineries surrounding Houston you will see that their cost cutting measures lead to many accidents or even intended venting of large amounts of toxins illegally just because they ddint want to halt production while they repaired equipment. Typically it was up to the regulators to catch them in the act regarding the latter, so we dont know how many times they actually did it and got away with it. My point is why be confident that any nuc plant operator will never do something risky because their bottom line is hurting, and cover it up if necessary? Talking about these things is the only way any of us have a chance at seeing what goes on.
Almost all supposed 'radiation leaks' are totally inconsequential and the media are totally responsible for the fear surrounding them. The plants that dump waste into rivers or produce large amounts of toxic products that have to be disposed of are infinitely more damaging. Nuclear having a bad name is dragging the energy industry back so much, go and google thorium reactors if you want to see something that could be an enormous step forward but because of fears about anything with the name nuclear is being held back.
http://www.montrealgazette.com/news/After+Fukushima+fish+tales/5994237/story.html Tl;dr a good portion of fish catches from waters near Japan test aove the new safe limits. They also mention that cesium levels in the ocean fell for a while then leveled out, indicating that there may be more radiation being released. But the most certain trend is that everybody is passing the buck on testing seafood imports.
my fear is that all these "inconsequential" leaks might sum up and become consequential sometime. And then we're fucked.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-17533398 Granted, the high radiation was found inside the reactor, not outside of it, but that and the low water suggests the reactor isn't in such a stable state. What seems worse is that they haven't examined the other reactors and that this is only the second time they take a measurement. Given the kind of problem this is I think it is worrying that they aren't checking this kind of thing on a regular basis. Also worth noting a plant in VA leaked tritium in the last month, but apparently that is normal, with 75% of plants in the US leaking tritium.And the NRC... has never denied a request to extend the life of a plant, and was described by the president as a “captive of the industries that it regulates.." so I wouldn't have much faith in the regulators. You have at least 3 plants this year that have leaked radiation in the US this year, maaany plants pushing beyond their years, cost cutting measures left and right (such as removing earthquake detection equipment in the VA plant), and a broken regulation system. I'm not going to get into the argument of whether or not new plants should be built, but I think that there is a timebomb ticking when it comes to the existing nuclear capacity, and the safety standards of those operating them.
Worth reading. I admit the source has an obvious agenda towards anxiety and the like, but the info is solid. The gist of it is that the big concern is actually the spent fuel pool in reactor four... i realize it is not something to be freaking out about but i feel it is necessary to continue to remind people this is ongoing, since everybody seems to have moved on. The big thing for me is that it seems like they could be treating this as a higher priority. I have thought that since the start... Given the knd of ituation they had, it shouldnt have taken days to get backup generators and choppers. I realize what had just happened on a country wide scale, but that should have been paramount, and international assistance should have helped provide it. It is worth the coast guards time or the koreans or whoever to get them help at a time like that. http://thewatchers.adorraeli.com/20...clear-reactor-no-4-raises-new-global-worries/
The Fukushima situation has made me really think about how I feel about nuclear power. I used to be indifferent about nuclear power, leaning towards a positive view of it, but lately I have come to oppose them 100%. I'm very libertarian leaning and kind of always thought, "well if the market for nuclear is there, go for it." But the whole idea that the fule has to be virtually indefinitely maintained is completely against my ideals. Once the company or individuals who owns a plant ceases to exist, the burden is still there for some one to have to take over. Otherwise life and property will be damaged and/or destroyed. That is a pretty crappy proposition. The only way I'd be in favor is if we can come up with some safe way to transport spent fule into space.
Dyslexic typo tested, and spell check approved. fule\ˈfu̅e̅l\ Definition of FULE Scottish variant of fool
Strong ignorant view. Go and look up thorium reactors. Nuclear is the only sustainable energy currently viable
What makes itso much more viable? I thought that when the construction, operation, and envionmental costs are added up there is little benefit? Jman gets it for sure. Japan and possibly the world is currently dependent on whether or not TEPCO is doing enough to ensure the spent fuel remains safe. I realize we take similar risks (eg oil rigs) that can go wrong but the stakes seem worse here
Wind power is extremely expensive for the power output it produces. Tidal power is a possibility but hasn't had nearly enough work put into it yet. The others are just possibilities really or can't ever provide enough power (geothermal) apart from Solar energy which may well be viable once the cells being developed prove to be efficient enough. Some of the organic transistors being created definitely will provide a part of the future. In terms of energy production nuclear power still has the edge as it has a pretty large watt output from a small area of land. I'll ignore oil and coal as everyone knows how unsustainable they are and unless you're a climate sceptic the environmental damage they cause is much worse than a bit of nuclear waste. Thorium reactors are interesting because they produce waste with a very small half-life (~100 years) and the raw material has already been stockpiled by the USA to very large quantities. The reactors also operate at much lower temperatures so the chance of a meltdown is much lower. Until nuclear fusion potential solves the energy debate for centuries after the new fission options have great potential. Environmental costs are difficult to calculate but the radiation dangers from nuclear are blown way out of proportion. Chernobyl has had many long term studies on it and these showed that the only cancer more likely to develop was thyroid if you were outside the immediate area of the reactor when it failed. Everyone gets hysterical over radiation levels that are the same as a flight across the Atlantic but no-one listens to the rational advice.
Actually many doctors in Europe believe that the low fallout still had effects on the health of their patients. Not fatal diseases, but more respiratory problems and that kind of thing. Geo works great and provides most of the needs of the Phillipines and Iceland, but those countries ae ideally situated.
Providing the power of two of the smallest countries in terms of energy usage in the world is absolutely nothing to be proud of. Nuclear provided a large chunk of France's energy output for a while without incident but everyone seems to forget that. I'm yet to see a paper saying anything about the fallout across Europe causing problems. Any paper would also be worth nothing unless it took into account industrialisation, smog production etc.
Like i said, geo obviously works better in some places than others. Same goes for wind, solar. In Texas customers get a large percent of their electricity from wind farms. Germany doesnt even have much sun but gets a lot from solar. In the long run with sustainable energy the viability is more a question ofthe potential to meet needs... Costs will come down for anything that is renewable. I know you said currently viable, but it seems hyperbolic to say nuclear is the only one as if solar, geo and wind arent being succesfully implemented. Thorium reactors do spund great but i have no idea about the plant cost. I know that uranium can be just as much subject to supply constraints as fossil fuel, so there is that to considr as well.
An Oregon Senator visited the plant and felt that the spent fuel storage is a considerable threat in the event of further building damage or another large quake. A strong enough quake is something they should be expecting. He said the same thing as me... More attention should be paid to this, and any assistance that can be provided should be. http://www.wyden.senate.gov/news/pr...tion-wyden-says-situation-worse-than-reported There are copies of his letters, incl. to H Clinton on the right.
what i find funny is all the people going "omfg media blackout, why aren't they reporting this", as if it would do any good to induce a widespread panic that would just result in people absolving themselves of whatever facade of civility they may still be hiding behind and subsequently going on a hedonistic 21st century pleasure-spree (then again this is me speaking as a misanthropic pessimist) i'm just going to naively continue going about my daily affairs and assume that somewhere out there, somebody qualified is doing their damndest to keep shit under control
There is a wide range between mass freakout and "it's cool, TEPCO will take care of everything!" Would BP have worked as hard to cap the Macondo well if the leak was getting this little attention? More coverage would push the Japanese governmen as well as other nations to do more to ensure that the spent fuel is being handled in the best way possible. Sandbags and a ten year timeframe are not good enough. From my country's role, there only being one senator out of the whole government who gives a shit is also inexcusable. Not to say that i agree with the kind of ridiculous tone of natural news... Just. That it could be catastrophic if this is ignored by everybody but the weirdo fringe.
