http://townhall.com/columnists/PatBuchanan/2010/09/10/the_bonfire_of_the_qurans Pat Buchanan proves why he is crazier than the pastor.
So people are already getting injured in muslim countries because of protesting over this thing. LOL. As much as I think this pastor guy is a big fat poophead, I gotta say... those people who are violently protesting because some dude in a country thousands of miles away is burning a book... they are fucking stupid. Also, I find it hilarious that the protesters, who consider the US their enemy, end up being the ones who get killed or injured by their own actions while people here in the US remain largely unaffected. It's like, if we are their enemy, all we have to do is keep insulting them and eventually they will all be gone.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/2586971/posts someone plz post this on a muslim forum, i need some good lulz.
spread the word: [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oRcUdruhgyw"]YouTube - Qur'an set on Fire at Ground Zero on 9/11[/ame] btw, this was posted in gen discussion for greater lulz.
Well, ten days ago they DID burn the Quran in his church, and during the resulting protest in Afghanistan 8 UN workers were killed. Obviously the first to blame are the ones who used the protest to carry out acts of violence. But I can't help but wonder how Jones feels now that his actions have set off a chain of events that killed that many people. Did he get what he wanted? Has his point been made? Was it worth it? http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/apr/01/un-staff-afghanistan-mazar-sharif-killed-quran
I think that's a meaningless question to ask seeing as how Terry Jones carries 0% responsibility in this matter, IMO. Blame lies almost solely on those persons committing the actual acts of violence, and somewhat less directly on those individuals responsible for instilling the twisted mindset in the heads of those that committed these acts of violence.
But at the same time, if they hadn't held a Quran burning, this wouldn't have happened... how can he have zero percent responsibility if whether or not those deaths occurred stems from whether or not that burning took place?
If I flushed a DVD set of the Star Wars prequels down the toilet to publicly communicate my dislike for those movies, and this action resulted in a small band of batshit crazy Star Wars fans donning their Chewbacca costumes and rioting and killing people, do I deserve to be burdened with blame for those murders? Why should I have to shoulder any sort of burden for the fact that there exist groups of insane individuals that have completely irrational reactions to completely innocuous actions? This always has been and always will be a freedom of speech issue; Islam seems completely incompatible with this concept.
If it was well established that flushing Episodes I-III down a toilet would result in deaths, would you still do it?
Probably not, although whether or not I personally would do it has absolutely no bearing whatsoever on whether or not people should have the freedom to do it. This type of reactionary Islamic fundamentalism is absolutely incomptable with secular society, and this incompatibility will have to be dealt with at some point in time. Events like this only force us to confront this issue sooner. I mean, what would you consider the best course of action here? Affording Islam with some kind of special status where discussing it in certain fashions becomes taboo, either purely socially or even legally?
The poor widdle beheaders were the victims here. You know a religion is fucked up when its moderates are trying to pin blame on a guy burning a Qur'an. Seriously, if you are that insecure if someone burns your magical book that you BEHEAD PEOPLE, it's on you, not the burner. I share Muslims' grievance against retards in the West, however, my agreement stops when shit like this happens. I'm with the pastor on this one.
I never said that people's freedom to piss off others should be questioned or that making it taboo would fix anything. My point is that Jones had his way, and it hasn't made anything better, but it has made things worse. So it's not "meaningless" to ask "Now that the Quran burning took place, what does Jones feel he's achieved?" The only difference between burning a quran and poking a bear is that the bear has no choice in how it responds to provocation. But at the same time we know bears are bears (they fuck shit up when you piss them off) and Muslims are Muslims (they fuck shit up when you piss them off). Whether or not whatever it is you're antagonizing has control over its behavior doesn't make provoking it any less of a bad idea.
Why should we tiptoe around Muslims when we don't do the same to Christians? Fuck that. If I want to rip on someone's magical book, why should I be killed over it? No. Fuck that.
How can perpetuating the cycle of pissing off Muslims, having them retaliate, retaliating against their retaliation by pissing them off, having them retaliate, etc.... be anything but the kind of behavior that prevents progress from being made? I'm not for/against Muslims, Christians, Floridian Pastors, or anything, I'm just against people who keep the world bogged down in the same ignorant behaviors. There's no excuse for taking a problem and doing something that makes it worse, regardless of from where the problem originated.
How come only the West has to walk on eggshells? Shouldn't Muslims be, I dunno, perhaps more outraged that their fellow Muslims are killing and beheading people because they got butthurt over some retarded pastor's book-burning? Maybe Muslims should be more reticent about killing people and offending our sensibilities (you know, it is really offensive when you burn people alive). If you want to dispose of the notion that Islam is fascist, then you will want to drop the "apples = oranges" narrative. Is burning the Qur'an retarded? Yes. Is killing and beheading 20 U.N. workers retarded? Yes. However, you and the apologists are saying the apple -- the burning of the Qur'an -- is as bad as or worse than the butchering of 20 people. Perhaps the pastor is onto something here.
Maybe if I communicate in a more customary fashion for 5/8 you'll get it... Dude=Me, Terry Jones = Walter
Yes he is...though in his retardation he at least exposed Islam for what it is. Jones should be criticized for causing butthurt. But for me he is off the hook on anything exceeding butthurt. Murdering innocent people is not due to butthurt but due to being a sociopath.
In the seven replies since I posted the link that is the first one that has any relevance whatsoever to the questions I asked. What did he achieve? Exposing the butthurtness of "Islam." So that leaves the question "Was it worth it?"
It makes no difference if he's achieved anything or not. The fact that there was intent to provoke makes no difference in regards to assigning the blame. If you're driving on the highway and flip someone off (thus intentionally provoking them), and then that person follows you home and guns down your entire family, it would be ridiculous to claim that you are to blame for your family's demise. Clearly in such a scenario, the response to your provocation is orders of magnitude more severe than the otherwise innocuous action that provoked it, and profoundly unwarranted. I would agree that flipping somebody off in the first place may not be right thing to do (I think we agree there), but that doesn't remove any blame from the person that committed the murders and transfer it to the person flashing their middle finger. I guess our difference in positions stems that you're saying that Jones provoking muslims is the problem we're discussing, whilst I'm viewing this Jones Quran burning as a small piece in a somewhat larger picture. I mean that in the sense that there's a history of fundamentalist muslims committing atrocious acts, and in most cases where this has happened, the entity that triggered the acts of violence was not specifically intended to provoke. Things such as The Satanic Verses or the danish cartoons might have poked fun at Islam, but they were not created with the sole intention of provoking muslims. And yet they elicited the exact same type of response as the one due to Jones burning the Quran.
If these people were genuinely mentally ill, and you knew about it, that would be correct and probably make the people who burned Qurans responsible. However, these Muslim people have been raised with this behaviour that should be unacceptable today. And part of showing them it's unacceptable is to assume that they have full responsibility for their choices. Some people took out guns and shot people for no reason (or they were pissed off, same thing), you're helping them if you're not viewing the situation that way. And the fact is that after this people will burn Qurans, there's nothing you can do about it, you can't stop them and you shouldn't (since it's their right), and there are a bunch of people who want to shoot people because they got offended. Now I'm not so against people in different parts of the world having different values, in fact I don't like that the western world thinks largely alike, but I don't think that people shooting people because they were pissed off has place in any value system. And even if it did, the rest of the world doesn't hold the same system of values as they do, and what they do is getting pissed off that the rest of the world is different, and essentially their message is that the rest of the world should change to their liking. Being different doesn't come with a free right to force other people to be like you. I don't see how bowing to that message is a good idea. The message is “If you don't do what I like, we're going to shoot people”. I don't see any reason to treat this differently than “We're going to shoot people”. If they are pissed off that someone burnt a Quran, they should stop reading the Internet and stop caring about what happens at the other side of the planet.
<p>I don't think you guys understand me yet. Maybe more than anyone I have a problem with the violence happening in the Islamic world. For years now, every month dozens of Muslims have been killed at the market or the mosque because of some perceived differences in religion. So of course I want it to stop! But its been happening for years and is out of control. Everything being done to stop it has not been enough. The battle is in the hands of the ones whose lives are at risk, not people like. Terry Jones. So when someone like him comes along and starts interfering without any care for what damage may be inflicted on the innocent I feel resentment for the kind of clown who takes his 15 minutes of fame while others are taking to the grave.</p>
Every time I start to think I'm a really good troll, I look at guys like Terry Jones, Fred Phelps, Ann Coulter, or hell even Sarah Palin. Then I realize I'm still a fucking noob at trolling.
I say we go full retard and host multiple Qur'an burnings as well as other hilariously insulting actions. Quit being pussies and see just how froggy they are. When they leap, blow them away. (I fully support this towards any and all religions, but you're not gonna find many Hindu's giving a shit if you insult their Dumbo god.) Essentially: We need to take a "Come at me, bro" approach.
http://www.mediaite.com/tv/bill-mah...d-that-kills-you-when-you-disagree-with-them/ good monologue by Bill Maher here.
